It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. How is my list for OCS? : r/army - Reddit In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and. Stan figured that even spending 5 years in a non-flying job, this track would make him a military pilot well below the USAFs current age limit (33 years old), and would actually get him to the airlines sooner than his Active Duty pilot peers. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Aircraft like the E-3 dont have many bases. There's a regulation whose number I can't recall at the moment that specifies when it starts. 10 year ADSO - General Military Helicopter Discussions - Vertical This 10 year commitment will definitely dissuade him from the Army. Active component warrant officer strength, as of October 1, 2018 (Source: Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls), Two main variables affect pilot strength in the military: production and retention. Army, Coast Guard . Though I agree that there is a retention problem, especially within aviation, I'm not sure the Army is focused on the right issue here. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. The report included a figure showing that the Army faced a shortfall of 330 warrant officerswho comprise 70 percent of the Armys pilot ranks. Back To Top Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. Branching Aviation New Commitment | Page 2 | United States of America This! What are the chances of getting picked up. army aviation 10 year adso. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? Unfortunately, it probably wont exist long enough for it to achieve the desired effects. More career Enlisted apply than street2seat on a yearly basis. His administration's definition of readiness was turning maximum amount of red chicklets on spreadsheets to green, sending people over and over to the field and CTCs without any break, and endless rotations to Korea and Europe. I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. It never ends. I think it would be a great idea to leverage senior NCOs to enter pilot training with a waiver. One year dedicated to reset, one to training, one to deployment. Were you planning on doing it for less than 10 years?, His answer was, Of course not. Just sign away your life until you're 34!". That's my 2 cents. 10 U.S. Code 2114: Graduates of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences incur an ADSO of at least 7 years. b. You're losing highly skilled aviators that took millions of dollars and 5-10 years to train. Whether you elect the Branch of Choice or Graduate School Program, there are slight differences to your commitment for those who branch Aviation. Gen. McCurry also said, People still want to fly. Their workload is increased several fold versus the units that they are supporting. Hes likely deployed at least 3 times, if not more, and has also spent many weeks TDY. Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? Plus, you will also be earning full GI Bill benefits AT THE SAME TIME. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. That's my issue (age waiver). Instead, the aviation branch has proposed to boost aviation career incentive pay, or flight pay, which can retain more qualified aviators, he said. Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/ It just seems like a bait and switch to have me sign a conditional release and paperwork that says 6 years and then say, oh by the way we meant 10. So why are aviators getting out? In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. You don't have to have a college degree to apply or be accepted into it, he said. If anything it hurts recruiting new pilots. During this time, Stan would at least need to obtain his Private Pilot Certificate. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. No. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. Before Army Secretary Ryan D. McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June, the Army had bumped up its incentive pay for aviators in January. These trips have to be funded at his own expense and would require him to use leave that wont be available for family trips. I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. They can surely find that amount in the Enlisted ranks if WARRANTED. For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. | Army Organic Industrial Base Modernization Implementation Plan, Army Civil Works announces publication of a formal review for Nationwide Permit 12, Army Extends Timeline for Postpartum Soldiers to Meet Body Fat Standards, U.S. Army updates promotion and retention policies in response to COVID-19. Its important to note that Stans theoretical plan might have allowed him to obtain the 750 hours needed for an R-ATP about 7 years after graduating from college, but thats not competitive for getting hired at a major airline. USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). So 6 years from ALE graduation day? 10 Year ADSO : r/Armyaviation - reddit Posted on . It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. It must continue to remove burdens that plague the warrant officer community, such as non-pilot-related duties and frequent deployments to combat training centers. Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? Your link has been automatically embedded. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. Subject to the needs of the Army, newly rated aviators should be used in operational flying duty positions immedi-ately after their successful completion of Army aviation flight training. In an all-volunteer force, you won't be ready if most of your personnel in a critical branch want to get out. There are also discussions within the Army aviation community of additional changes that would make becoming a warrant officer even less appealing. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. These investments set the Army apart from all the branches, he said. The root cause cited by those transitioning at various levels has related to toxic climates, mismanagement of professional profiles, quality of life, and unit culture. As a good mentor, I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. My formation barely ever conducts social events. Question for the Salty Dogs: 10 Year ADSO : Armyaviation - reddit If you want to. This puts you right at your commissioning ADSO plus the three-year CSP ADSO. Below are the commissioning ADSOs by source of commission: ROTC Non-Scholars have a 3-year commissioning ADSO. Your previous content has been restored. His answer was, Of course not. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. Note: The waiver authority for this requirement is the Commanding General, U.S. Army Aviation Center, Fort Rucker, AL 36362-5000. . Time will tell. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. After working several years in the corporate sector in various strategic positions, I recently came back on active duty due to the strong desire to serve. Service commitments are different for Warrant Officers in the Army Reserve and the Army National Guard. One Academy cadet I spoke with (lets call him Stan) has always wanted to be a military pilot. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many side-hustles is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Look down many of us are after something a little more challenging than the admin tasks of a 1SG or CSM. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. We are always either training or deploying. Change flight school where primary flight training is done by civilian contractors via fixed wing. Suddenly, Active Duty isnt looking that bad, right? It's kinda like a Yelp! The Army is making those who want to go through flight school incur a 10 year active duty service obligation (ADSO) as it's "fix" for pilot retention. Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. positivism constructivism or interpretivism and pragmatism army aviation 10 year adso. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. Im a turd for putting 2021. Although neither has been officially announced, the Army is rumored to be considering two proposals: a provisional status for warrant officer candidates until they graduate flight school and an increase in time-in-grade to make chief warrant officer 2. New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation - United States Army For example, its the only service that allows people to go into flight training with only a high school degree. But at what cost? Yes, that is 11 combat stripes. I at least expected a survey or something from the Aviation branch to ask why I was leaving, but again, nothing. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. Cookie Notice The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. That's the Army's ace in the hole. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. 10 Year ADSO Discussion - Vertical Reference Helicopter Forums I wish thiswasa little more clear. However, he missed out on that Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path and is concerned about a 10-year UPT ADSC. Vertical Reference What if Stans 5-year ADSC runs out as the next SARS/Swine Flu/COVID-type pandemic puts hiring on hold? Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. Were looking at troops selected for flight training in the fiscal year 2021 and beyond.. Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. Would they do it with a 12-year commitment? U.S. ARMY RECRUITING COMMAND > In-Service Opportunities > U.S. Army Aviation continuation pay 2 . However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty UPT slot in hopes of possibly getting a Guard or Reserve slot 5 years from now. Branching Aviation New Commitment | United States of America Service If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. At first, his idea sounded reasonable to me. What is the real answer? More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. Hopefully with the new 10 year ADSO aviation will assess more senior NCOs. This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. Aviation has always been a highly desirable branch, and gaining a slot has been a matter of performance or differentiation from peers (whether OML or via a competitive application process). People have no time to actually live their lives. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. The UH-72 costs twice as much to operate as a TH-67. What is everyone's take on the new ADSO for aviation? Expand The 10 year ADSO will actually prevent all but the youngest street-to-seaters from making the jump, I graduated flight school right after turning 24 and the AF won't take you after 33 without a waiver. 10 year ADSO is official : r/Armyaviation - reddit While I really want to be an aviator, the thought of being TOTALLY LOCKED IN until I'm 34 is terrifying. Well, when you have a system that initially punishes critical thinking, then requires it later on down the line, you're creating your own problem that ends up causing its own problems. There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. This is not going to end well until leaders finally understand that there has to be a work/life balance. Especially since TN he Chinooks are B Co 2-104 from CTARNG and I was the CDR and PC sitting in the left of the Chinook in the foreground on the left. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 . Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. Its a lot to ask. It's a great time to apply to become a pilot, and [Soldiers] can get in with a high school degree. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. United States, and the U.S. Army Re-serve, unless otherwise stated. Well look at three cases: Although each of these career paths has potential for almost infinite variation, this diagram represents likely versions of each: Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again. . I retired in 1998. Then 10 year service obligation put me right at 20 so Im not too worried about that. If you love the flying youre doing, and you have a squadron of good people, any assignment can be a great experience, no matter how busy you are. Unlike pilot deployments that can be as short as a couple of months, engineer deployments are usually 6-12 months. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. Next, hed go to his first assignment. Initial assignments should be in table of organiza-tion and equipment (TOE) rather than table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units. I wouldnt put it past B Co to drop incorrect information and later say we didnt say that.. Prospective warrant officers can see that the Army is having trouble retaining pilots, and they can also see that increasing the service obligation by four years works against their best interests. There is no replacement theory for ARFORGEN they decided to just shelve it and go with "let's make everyone miserable all the time". Moving to a random Air Force Base for less than 1 year while Awaiting Pilot Training (APT), Moving to a base for 6-10 months for initial aircraft qualification. If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. It's almost as though he completely and totally ignored the concept of morale and esprit de corps. Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. Your flight school ADSO is based on when you graduate WOBC and pin on your flight wings. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. A reduction in accessions will turn a long-term solution into a short-term problem. There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. It wasn't approved. Lets compare these options to see why. This means keeping up with at least two airplanes and dealing with two potentially very demanding bosses.
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