Is it a hydraulic roller as well? OK, what is hydraboost, and how do you like how the cam performs??? When boost or nitrous are introduced, and engine builders contemplate choices between single-, dual- or reverse-pattern camshafts then the discussion gets muchmore technical. Required fields are marked *. but less of it at the same time. Save Share. While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. Before getting to the cam profiles, we had to make sure we had a reasonable test engine. I forgot to add that poor vacuum is not much of a concern to me because I have no power accessories. . I don't know about 13 to one but I have seen 12 to one on a 350 chev in hot rod article, BUT the guy soft petals around on the street with no full throttle use and puts racing gas in at the track. Hopefully It will do fine in my 2276 mostly drag bug. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. Most street cams are ground 4 degrees advanced which boosts bottom end, throttle response, vacume, mpg driveability etc. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. Lobe Separation Angle Explained and How it Affects Horsepower - MotorTrend But you always have a cam card with the engine. Looking at 108vs. It also depends on what the vehicle will be used for and if economy and vacuum are important. 06 The ported heads featured a 2.165/1.590-inch valve combo. This is very critical for manifold vacuum, throttle response, emissions, and gas mileage. Since we were only changing the lobe separation angle, we had to make sure every variable (air/fuel, timing, water, air, and oil temps) was identical during testing. The lobe separation angle or LSA is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes. Realize what the engine is going in, however, as you may not be able to use the wildest cam out there. http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220, http://www.popularhotrodding.com/en6em_camshaft_specs/lobe_seperation_angle.html. However, these rules are not absolute. Lucky for us, Brian Tooley Racing stepped up with a dual spring package that allowed us to safely run our 0.624-lift cam. As a result, a wider valve opening system with no overlapping allows more oil to fall through the oil inlet. LS Exhaust Manifold Bolt Torque (Everything You Need To Know), Holley Power Valve Sizes: Everything There is to Know. It is possible to advance and retard the timing events, but the distance between the centerline of the lobes will remain constant. We will also custom grind any of the above profiles with a custom lobe center, for an additional $20 dollars. Noah knows a lot about whats happening in the car industry with the latest piloting productions thanks to his professional experience. so it is a solid flat tappet, torker intake, 1" 4-hole tapered spacer and 750 carb (QFT) transmission is a wide ratio toploader, rear is a 9" 3.89 geared 26"rear tires. Post Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! I have used some cut on a 110 that worked well too, but they never sounded as good as the tight ones. They also reduce stress on the outdrive. Your email address will not be published. This comparison highlights that the 106 LSA is a good performer in a few mechanical aspects than the 110 LSA. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It is the DESIGNED events that yield CENTERLINE. 238/248 duration, 300/310 adv. 106 LSA: As you know, the intake and exhaust lobes centerline distance is known as lobe separation angle. The result sounded wonderful, but it didnt rev as enthusiastically and it made 30 less horsepower than normal, says Lawrence. My duration will be about 230 degrees. The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered. (ICL + ECL) / 2 = LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE (LSA) LSA is a RESULT of the PROPER events. You can research your heads to find out where yours are, but honestly I don't think it will be worth the effort on a tow vehicle. 110 LSA: On the contrary, 110LSA has a higher piston-to-valve clearance rate. Engine builders Chuck Lawrence, left, and Doug Patton. 110 LSA: You will find the complete opposite scenario here. Cam ???? Same Cam 112 vs. 114 Sep., What happens? 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See all 14 photos 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree). The same is true for intake valve closing. But, after comparing these two LSA based on a few mechanical aspects, such as maximum Torque, RPM, powerband, oil consumption, and many more, you will find the 106 LSA with better performance output. As you can see in the graph, the 101 LSA cam actually had the highest cranking compression of the batch: 185 psi. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. you cannot just take a random change in a lobe separation angle and say 1 is better than the other. If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open.. that is why people running 112 or 114 lobe centres retard the cam ,that way the exhaust event is back were it was before .this helps in exhaust valve tempatures--anyway today i talked too barry who is the owner of shadbolt cams and we talked about cam lobe centres -he considers 108 centre quite narrow and for a very narrow power band operation ,with a 112 he figures with the carbs with straight & even runs at the valves there should be no noticable loss of low end power, a 112 lobe would be a great choice for a great street strip motor -better lower torque followed with a flatter rising torque curve as well as rpm range extended 500-700 rpm -. BUT, 114 will have more vacuum at idle, which will work better with some fuelinjection. For any additional clarification or questions please contact our Tech Line at 714 523-0530. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gfBu8uc6k&t=1s. Selecting a camshaft for a given engines purpose usually involves a compromise between low- or high-end power options, and the lobe separation angle (LSA) is one of those factors where engine builders have to make a choice between those priorities. Lunati's New Bootlegger Camshaft Series Has Strong Race - Dragzine Camshafts Demystified - CarTechBooks 108 vs. 110 lobe separation angle?? | Vintage Mustang Forums Contrariwise, 106 LSA car engines are the best choice for people seeking energy-efficient cars with moderate engine power. While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. Some of the confusion on this subject comes from what the meaning of "bottom" and "top" is to the speaker, I suppose. The 110o will make more power overall. On a tight lobe separation, like 106-108 degrees, the engine will build torque quickly and reach its peak early. So, now you, Read More Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main CulpritContinue, While changing the oil on your boats lower unit, you may need to change the drain plug, too. So, the 110 LSA engine is a suitable choice for people prone to be the fan of a powerful engine with mighty acceleration power. Well, it is quite a natural event that you may not find the lope separation angle mentioned at the engine body. If identical and for a given displacement the 110 will give more power. So, choose the perfect lobe separation angle for your engine, complying with the requirements of your needs. 4-linked72, what cam are you using that has a 108 LSA? THis is a real generalization, but the weaker your heads, the more you will like the smaller centers ( 106-108) the better the heads, and the higher the compression, the more it will like the wider centers ( 112-114)everything else falls somewhere in the middle( 108-110) Once you get close with the cam centerlines, it wont make much differance if you change it up or down by 2 degrees. 110 LSA: However, if you look at the rate of cranking compression at 110 LSA, you will find a reduced compression rate from the standard cranking compression PSI level. (2002) et rappel sur une carte hors texte. I will be running an Edelbrock Performer RPM, with a Quick Fuel 750cfm with a screw adjustable vacuum secondary; it's called the Pro-vac. 106 lobe sep. in a street car. | NastyZ28.com After spending 8 years in plant production engineering, Noah wanted to join Engine Addiction as a key member of all cars specific guides, reviews, repairs, suggestions, and more. It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. However, finding them might be challenging if you dont have any prior knowledge. Leave the 108 for solid rollers turning big rpms. Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. As you tighten the centers ( 108 ) the same engine will make MORE power through the mide range and top end. I would have to say that your cam choice sounds like a winner to me. GRIND #: CRB3 3194 /3196 HR111. The taller lobe seperation will have a longer powerband but will have to rev higher to make the power than the lower lobe seperation! TH400 Vs Powerglide: Which One is Ideal for You? Split duration/lift only helps when your intake/exhaust ratio is low on the exhaust side. But it also has a lot of lobe separation. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Things like idle vacuum, fuel economy, and tuning all factor into picking the right cam. 112 vs 114 lobe centers You cannot tell the differance in the two . But, the narrow or broad powerband choice varies from person to person. The 234o duration kind of eliminates the RV usage. Tight LSA cams make excellent low-end torque and have a beautiful power curve. 4 Impaired episodic memory and semantic knowledge are common in TLE, although dysexecutive traits . . ditto with the above. If the exhaust valve closes too early it will trap some of the spent gases in the combustion chamber, and if it closes too late it will over-scavenge the chamber and take out too much of the charge, again creating an artificially lean condition. 108 is very tight producing lower vacuum and more of a 2 stroke "punch" powerband. I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " This causes the engine's street manners and tuning to become fickle. 106 LSA: 106LSA results in a decrease in piston-to-valve clearance. A Pro Stock engine builder may prefer a wide LSA to help keep the power from breaking traction tOo early. Classic Inlines - How to Select a Cam Profile - FordSix Performance Forum For Example: A 110-degree lobe separation means that the peak opening points of the Intake and Exhaust lobes is 110 degrees apart. In reality, a cam with 220 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 112 will have the exact same mechanical overlap as a cam with 217 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 109. "When the low-pressure wave in the exhaust reflects into the intake, the pressure delta actually helps pull air and fuel into the cylinder. Also If you go with 112 lobe centers, you create less valve overlap which will increase your compretion. Getting back to the sound of an engine, its no secret that a raucous, lumpy idle is often preferred by street cruisers, regardless of the ill manners and inefficiency of such an engine setup. what does 112+2 lsa mean?? - LS1GTO Forums That notion is completely false. A wide lobe seperation is not always better than a narrow one, or vise versa. dont sound like a verry street friendly motor butany thoughts? Pretty much standard for an RV type cam. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. by Hoxviii Mon May 12, 2003 7:50 pm, Post Generally speaking, decreasing the lobe centerline angle increases overlap. Bad idea in my view. pump gas, no additive's as well, runs good, i will put the highest octane in, which is 93.. Wide LSA cams are also applicable in forced-induction applications where less exhaust overlap is required. also,, wider will produce a wider and more flat torque curve that doesn't fall off as abruptly up top rpms. Re: Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110. Thanks again. Powerband serves a massive contribution to the acceleration car. I just installed a Comp Cams XE262 in a 9:1 350 with stock iron heads. The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. Exhaust reversion is another undesirable side effect that can be caused by overlap. 02 The 402-inch stroker short-block combined an aluminum LS2 block with a 4.000-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods. by farmer Mon May 12, 2003 3:14 pm, Post How to Choose a Camshaft for Street Vehicles - OnAllCylinders Another difference between the two involves the power curve. If a street car has smaller lift and duration numbers, they might run 112 or 114. by jim martin Mon May 12, 2003 7:10 pm, Post Lobe Separation Angle 110 Vs 112 - Truck Guider I would say 114-117* would be a normal 1960's stock cam range and 117* to 120* is more what we see on modern engines. I think that cam had 110 lobe sep. Im loking at a summit cam with close to the same lift and duration #s but 114 lobe sep. Aug 20, 2006. Nothing makes mouths drop like a car that sounds and looks like it can't keep it self still! With the first cam loaded in the engine (the 101 LSA) Westech's Steve Brul made three dyno pulls, the average of which was saved to compare to the next cam. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. Overlap is the amount of time that both valves are open in the same cylinder. We even treated them to some chamber work before installation. For large port heads like the CNC 044's which can use the extra lift 1.4's make a noticable difference. 10 Tuning the timing curve and fuel from the 42-lb/hr FAST injectors was handled by this Holley HP management system. Camshaft Lobe Seperation | Team Chevelle Before we all start suffering from separation anxiety, we need to understand what lobe separation angle actually is and then how it affects your engine. Here are the basics: higher lift values open the valves to increase airflow and longer duration keeps the valves open longer. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. from the intake to the exhaust and vise-versa.Thats why a performance cam will usually have a rougher idle than a stock one. To illustrate the differences offered by changes in the LSA, we had Crane cams grind us three cam profiles that shared the same lift and duration figures, but differed only in the LSA. *If you do not have enough vacuum, you can in some cases install a vacuum canister or reservoir, which works by storing the peak vacuum in the reservoir. 108* or narrower lobe separation angle (LSA) is "Narrow" and 114* or wider (up to 117* or 120* for stock cams) is "Wide" , with 110 to 112* being the "normal" hot-rod cam. It will sound lovely I'm sure. Well, If I am not mistaken, you must be looking for which angle has what impact on your engine or which would be the best. The final cam was tighter still, with a 108-degree LSA. On engines equipped with independent intake and exhaust cams, the LSA is adjustable. 110 LSA) and Crane's #341191 (238/248, .563"/.587", 114 LSA), display considerably different characteristics. A cam with 110 lobe center will pull approximately 14-18"of vacuum is borderline for that type of application. Come join the discussion about restoration, modifications, NOS parts, troubleshooting, VIN codes, and more! To demonstrate changes to lobe separation in action, we ordered three camshafts from Comp Cams, all ground with identical lift (0.541 intake and 0.537 exhaust) and duration (230 intake and 236 exhaust) but with three different LSAs: a 101, a 107, and a 113. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. by mrsmythe Mon May 12, 2003 11:15 am, Post 112-110 Deg. That was all, and we have already reached the concluding point. camshaft is a Cranecams F238. A forum community dedicated to vintage Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. Once more the engine came apart to install the third test cam, a 107 LSA. The other thing is that you can make more power with a smaller aftermarket cam. The wider lobe separation angle closes the intake valve later and reduces cylinder pressure, so that is where it's detonation resistance comes from. The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. 110 will be a bit punchier in the midrange and probalby make a little more peak horsepower as long as a good exhaust is used. JavaScript is disabled. Cam timing plays an important role not only in the power generated but also the overall character of the powerplant. (LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE)cam CRANES 110921 has the intake close at 45 degrees ABDC while the wider lsa CRANES 114681 closes the valves at 50.0 ABDC . by Kdub Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:20 am, Post All testing was performed with an Aeromotive fuel pump feeding a set of 42-lb/hr injectors. 15,215. ohio. When degreeing in the camshaft, you are making sure the intake centerline is precisely where the cam is intended to be. 110 LSA: But here, quite surprisingly, you have to face the reduction of the EGR effect due to the 110 LSA. Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110? I had a 110 cam in my beetle and I didn't like it-the bottom end was doggy. LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine.
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