kerdi membrane over cement boardkerdi membrane over cement board

Step 3: Apply Thinset. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. It worked well - just like wallpapering. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. Schluter Ditra VS Cement Board (Which is better?) I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. This is the traditional tile backer. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI? First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. Step 2: Determine the room's center. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? Can you put Kerdi membrane over plywood? - KnowledgeBurrow.com Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Gettin' a little delirious. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. It's still applied to cement board. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board - YouTube The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. kerdi membrane over osb Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. Is it Sinful to put Kerdi over Hardi-backer? - Houzz This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. x 96 in. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. I've never had a failure. the cost of the tile job. Do you have any pictures? Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Fixing that is not that easy though. Step 4: Place the Tile. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. When installing KERDI with . You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. We recommend our users to update the browser. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. Re: Kerdi on shower curbs. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. New England. Do You Need Uncoupling Membrane Over Concrete? - On Secret Hunt RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. 120 sq feet including the floor. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? Your email address will not be published. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. bathroom - Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard - Home Improvement I simply sponge off the excess. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. (3ft-3in wide). Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. On the downside, the cement boards are heavy, somewhat difficult to cut and can leave abrasive sandy crumbs that can damage tubs and shower bases if youre not careful. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. We sponge water onto the cement board. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Why unmodified thinset with kerdi? - qyvxl.dixiesewing.com A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. Will add it in. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. #2. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. Kerdi board vs. Membrane vs. Other for Shower - DIY Home Improvement Forum see Prop 65 WARNINGS. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Shower walls construction made easy with Kerdi-Board panels. - La Tuilerie 4. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. The 30-in. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. . Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. A place where magic is studied and practiced? If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . Step 8: Allow to dry. Shower Install - Cement Board or Schluter? - RedFlagDeals.com Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board: What Are The Major Differences? Wedi vs. Kerdi Waterproof Membranes: Which Is Better? Thanks. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. Why you use cement board? Why does drywall work in a Kerdi Shower? - Terry Love Plumbing Advice For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. Kerdi on shower curbs - JLC-Online Forums Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. taping and prepping cement board for tile - Home Improvement Forum You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. No, that doesn't sound right. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards.